Amy Sheppard

This chat was recorded for the ‘My 30 Minutes’ podcast. You can listen to it here.

Connect with Amy on Instagram here.

Amy, welcome to 'My 30 Minutes and thank you for having me in the home studio. This is where the Sheppard Magic happens.

It is. Right here. I mean, we've written a lot of songs in this house, including Geronimo and Let Me Down Easy. All of them, basically, were written right here.

It's pretty cool. And it's a surprisingly cosy little space.

It is. It's a little nook. It used to be a cinema room. We're in my mum's house. So, we've taken over. We were like, 'You don't watch movies in here. We're going to use it as a studio.' So yeah, we’re really lucky to have the space. It's really central in Brisbane and yeah, it's nice to have a space you can just come and be creative whenever you want any time of the night. Sorry, mum!

Yeah, that's cool. How often or how many hours a day would you spend in here?

We spend a lot of time in here. Every day, we come in about like mid-day or one o'clock and then we work up until seven or eight depending on what we've got to do. So, it's really not that hectic, but I've spent many hours in here over time.

I love that - the music kind of lifestyle where you start at mid-day or later.

No, there is no starting before midday. That's why I like it. When we're on a promo run, it is hell for us because we’re like, you know, early morning TV. We're just not equipped for that kind of life, Kendall.

As a band, you've set a huge task this year, and you're releasing a new song every month. So, artists typically will work on a full album. There'll be some really strategic plan around how you release it, why you release it at that time, and in what way you choose to do it. So, what you're doing really breaks the mould. What's been the process behind that as a band?

Look, we decided this year that we really wanted to knuckle-down and write the album that we wanted to write. And for that you need a lot of time and I think since we released Geronimo, our schedule has been hectic. It's just been like flying here, flying there, promo run and then so often the job isn't about the music. So, we kind of just wanted to focus. Before COVID happened, we wanted to focus on writing more music and releasing more music for our fans. So, that was our goal. And we're lucky, I guess, in the sense that COVID did happen and we were equipped and ready. We had a plan already. And yeah, we were just going to release, write and release as much music as we possibly could. So, that turned out really well. It has been quite challenging, because to write a song.. it doesn't happen that easily and we've had to put a lot of effort and time in but it's going well. We've got to, what are we September, and we’re going to get the September song done. We'll probably finish that one off today. And yeah, it's just nice to have a music every month and have each single have its time in the sun because the way that people consume music these days is just so fast paced and rapid that when you release an album, sadly people don't listen to every track and so many songs just get, I guess, not wasted, but just get overlooked. And it's nice to have every single song have their own personality and moment in the sun. So, no songs get left behind.

I love that moment in the sun and very true because you've got a whole month to listen to it, to enjoy it. And then the next one comes out, which is awesome.

Yeah, exactly. And there's not too much pressure because for so long we'd release a song and we'd be riding on that song to do really well. Whereas, now we're like, 'Oh, well, the next one's coming. So, no pressure.’

You're constantly looking ahead.

Right!

On the Sheppard website, it describes this music that you're making at the moment as the 'most anthemic, uplifting declaration of love we've ever written.' That's a huge call from a band that wrote Geronimo.

Hmm. Well, yeah, I don't know. It's just that we've had the chance to focus and write a whole album that we want to write. I think, when we wrote Geronimo, like that song, obviously is great. We love that song. But for the rest of the album, I don't think we got enough time and chance to really work on the songs that we wanted to release.

We weren't ready to have a song that big, I don't think.

But I mean, you can't choose timing of things. But we're really proud of this album. We've worked so hard, and it's exactly how we want it to sound. And I think, yeah, we're probably going to be the most proud of this album when it comes out.

It's interesting hearing you talk about the success of a song like Geronimo, because that went to number one, not just in Australia, but around the world in so many different countries. Do you want to sing a little bit of the chorus just to...

(Laughs)

(Sings) Geronimo...

(Laughs)

It's the kind of song that there wouldn't be too many people in our country that couldn't sing along to that chorus. It's so catchy. And I find it amazing that you are describing this new music as anthemic, but everything you write is a real anthem. It's catchy. And I feel like as a listener, you can grab a hold of anything you're putting together. What's the ambition when you sit down to write music?

We just write what feels good to us and we write what we want to hear.

And that just so happens to be that anthemic, really like crowd pleasing songs. I mean, we never set out to write a particular song and I think you can hear that when you listen to whole albums, rather than just singles. But it just so happens that people really gravitate towards those, you know, those big stadium-esque songs. So, Geronimo and Coming Home and Symphony, people love to hear that from us. And luckily, we love to write those songs.

You've been doing this for the better part of a decade, and you've written so many hit songs, but as artists, you do rely on touring to make money. And you mentioned COVID before. What sort of impact has that had on your ability to make a living, to have a livelihood?

Yeah, look, it's tough. And I can't imagine what some musicians are going through, you know, we are lucky because we are such, I guess, strong songwriters. And that's a huge chunk of our income comes from royalties, and also from having our songs being synced to ads and whatever else. So, we're really fortunate to have the publishing side of things. But yeah, we've missed out on hundreds of thousands of dollars this year in touring. My heart goes out to the other artists who really, really rely on touring. But I guess we've just had to like pivot a little bit and make sure that we're putting everything we can into the writing this year, and I think there's not much more you can do. You've just got to keep going and make it work.

I imagine the plus side is that your home a bit more and when Geronimo hit and it did so well, as you said earlier, it would have been a pretty tough slog, and you wouldn't have spent a lot of time at home. You would have been traveling a lot. So, has it been strange to be home so much?

It's actually been really nice. I've got to admit. I'm not, you know, I don't want to jinx myself because when you say something like, 'Oh, I love staying home', and then you'll never get a gig again. That's how I feel but it's been really nice just having that chance to be home and not have to hop on a plane. Because that is honestly one of my least favourite parts of the job is having to go to airports and wait and wait and wait. Hurry up and wait. That's our lives. So, it's been really nice just to not worry about all of that stuff, well the extra stuff that doesn't matter and just focus on the songs, which is what we set out to do in the beginning when we started this band. You know not to hop on planes, and that's part of the job, what can you do?

When we talk about your livelihoods? Are you able to make a living out of what you guys are still doing this year when you can't tour? You're big band and there's a lot of people, so it's a bit different to being a solo artist who's reaping the rewards of the music they're writing and making. You've got to spread that out between a whole lot of people.

Yeah, it's challenging. It's not going to be our best year but hopefully next year is going to be better and hopefully we'll have a massive hit from this album and it'll work out. But yeah, it's a tough year. It's always tough. I think some people might think that we're like just absolutely rolling in it and buying designer bags every day. But no, the reality is we're putting all of our investments back into the band and paying wages and making sure there's enough money in there to tour when we can tour and keeping the business afloat. So, I think any business owner can relate to that and how hard it is to keep your head above water, especially in a time like this. But we're going to be okay. We're going to get through. I don't know, we'll see, not our best year, but we'll be okay.

As independent artists, marketing and branding are really crucial. So, things like social media are so important for promoting your work and your partnerships. You said earlier that in the early days, you thought you're just making music, but it becomes so much bigger than that. It becomes a real machine and you've got to be doing so many other things to make it all come together to actually make money and get people to listen to your music. How do you feel about having a public profile?

Look, fame is a bit of a beast. I never set out to be famous!

If I could just write music and be successful, and run a business without having to be famous, I would definitely choose that option!

Not that we're the most famous people on earth, but when we had Geronimo, we did get to a level of international fame and it was so scary! Just the thought of losing your freedom, not being able to go down the street without someone stopping you. And my heart really went out to people like Justin Bieber and Ariana Grande, those mega famous people that can't go anywhere, it must be suffocating, not to be able to leave your house and just switch it off! I think if I was in that position, I'd be wearing disguises when I went out because it is suffocating. And nowhere in the world can they go without being stopped or recognised and yeah, it's scary. Plus all the trolls that come with being on public forefront and yeah, it can be a nasty place, but I've just got to be grateful for what we have been given and try not to complain or take anything too personally, which is hard at times. But yeah, it is funny all the things that you have to go through just to release music and be an artist.

Well speaking of your public profile, you had a breakthrough moment last year. You were editing a photo and you decided to post it without a filter at all. And that sparked your 'Kiss My Fat Ass' campaign. Can you tell me about that moment?

So, I think it was for a couple of years, like social media just wasn't really sitting right for me. I started posting photos next to each other - one with the filter one without. But I never went the full like, 'Here's cellulite’, because that was such a 'Dun-dun-dun!' My weight has always been something that I've been really, really self-conscious of. I grew up and I was an overweight child and I was bullied for that. So, that's something that I've struggled with my whole life and being, I've been bullied for being larger for my whole life, even up until now. Like, it's crazy that the weight that people put on how you look it's just so ridiculous. So anyway, I was a victim to those pressures and I found myself editing photos and posting photos that were like my best angles and I'd taken them a thousand times and I just got really sick of it. Sick of that front, sick of people praising others that were putting up a fake front. And on the day that I did post that photo, my boyfriend took the photo. I saw the photo and I hated it. So, I spent about five minutes airbrushing the back of my legs, and I was like, 'Ah, now I'm perfect. I can upload it.' And then I just got this pang of guilt because I was like, you know, the majority of my followers are young women and how could I post this photo and pretend that this was my body..

They're comparing their real bodies to my fake ass?

So, I posted a photo as it was and then it started a whole movement, which is insane. Like, it just goes to show I actually was shocked at how people reacted to that one photo. And #kissmyfatass started from that because women from all over the world were joining in and posting their 'Kiss My Fat Ass' photos.

It's incredible too, because social media is such a game where you're trying to post a photo that will get some traction and it can rely a lot on the algorithm and it's just a weird, weird place to hang out.

I know, isn't it?

But this particular photo, I mean, there is a lot of pressure to post stuff that's perfect in order to get traction and have followers. The photo that you thought was probably not going to do that got you more likes than any before?

I know, it's so funny. And it shocked me so much because it just goes to show how much a little bit of cellulite shocked people and, you know, got people talking and got people involved and it just goes to show the kind of climate we're living in. When it comes to body image.

I think people crave that level of honesty. So, it's very refreshing to see someone like you who has a public profile actually show, "I'm just like you, too.' And what I love about you, anyone that follows you would know, you work out like every single day. So, we're not talking about someone who neglects their body, or you know, you're doing all the right things to look after yourself, but we still have cellulite. You can go to the gym and still have cellulite.

The only time I've ever been able to fit into a size 8 is just by starving myself and I'm just not willing to do that!

I want to live my life. I want to take care of my body and part of taking care of your body is going to the gym and part of taking care of your body is eating the cake when you want to. So, finding that balance has been a lifelong struggle for me but since I released this Kiss My Fat Ass Movement, it's just been so healing for me and hopefully others. And yeah, I just feel like a new person because I can eat, you know, I can eat the cake and be fine and I can go to the gym and I'm not punishing my body. You know, celebrating what my body can do, and really getting involved in gym challenges and things like that. Make it fun, and it's no longer a punishment.

Able to embrace who you actually are, which is incredible. The campaign did gain instant traction, and that led to you writing a song by the same name. You then did an incredibly inspirational music video with a whole bunch of other women in it. You're now known for these really raw, unfiltered images on Instagram, and they're inspiring a whole generation of social media users. It's been over a year and a half since you kicked this off. So, it was January 2019 when you first posted that photo. Do you feel like you've lost any momentum for the campaign? I'm just curious whether sometimes you don't want to be the Kiss My Fat Ass girl or is it something you can see yourself doing for a long time to come?

I think I'll be doing it for a really long time because I still get messages to this day, of women saying, thank you, because of your posts, it gives me permission to go to the beach with my child and not feel judged. And that's what really keeps me going. So, until messages like that stop and I can really feel people getting tired of my fat ass then I'm going to continue because I feel like, one, it's authentically me and two, I feel like I'm helping other women just break through some of those body image barriers. But of course, I have to pepper it with a bit of Sheppard because that's part of me, too. So, I think I'm just going to be as raw and real as I possibly can be on social media.

You're preparing to celebrate a milestone birthday.

Dun-dun-dun!

You turn 30 this month, which is very exciting. I actually turn 30 a few days after you, so.

Really? When's your birthday?

The 30th of September. I'm 30 on the 30th.

What you've achieved in your career and at such a young age and being able to have this traction with this campaign and so many followers on social media. All that is very ground-breaking for someone who's not yet 30. Why do you think you're so successful?

Oh, thank you. I don't know, I don't really like look at myself as really successful and under 30. I just keep going and I keep pushing myself and I think that I have a really strong work ethic. You know, I'm not really good at that many things. I remember growing up, I used to get really upset because I wasn't the fastest at anything. I wasn't good at sports. I wasn't good at music even and it's all something that I've worked on. And I think that's my strongest asset..

I have a really strong work ethic and I put my heart and soul into everything that I do.

Do you think you're able to define success not just for yourself, but for other people? Like what would you say the definition for success might be?

I would say, it's if you're satisfied with your work ethic, and if you put in the hardest effort that you possibly can, or could have, and you're satisfied with that effort, that's all you can do.

You can’t determine success on money or fame or followers.

That's like the biggest mistake you can do. I think you can maybe compare. See, I'm even careful about saying you can compare yourself to yourself because I mean…

Comparison is the thief of joy.

That's a big trap as well. But I think, as long as you're happy and you're progressing.

The main measure of success is happiness.

I've spoken with your sister Emma, she's also a member of Sheppard. I asked why she thinks you've been so successful and been able to make such an impact. She said, 'Amy knows what she wants and has always had a clear vision. She's also such a strong woman and doesn't take any S-H-I-T from anyone.'

(Laughs) Wow, coming from Emma herself.

Where do you think you get that strength from? Do you consider yourself strong?

At times, at times, I do but it has been a long journey to get here to where I am. I think I've got a lot of growing yet to do.

I'm looking forward to turning 30 because I'm feeling more secure than I ever have in my life.

And I feel like I'm just coming into my peak. But I don't know where the peak is. I feel like it never, never ends. I'm just always striving. And I think that's all you can do is strive to be your best.

I've also spoken with your partner, Lachlan, who you've been with for six years. I asked him to describe you in three words, if he could only pick three, what would they be? And he said, 'generous, humble and fierce.'

Ooh! (Laughs)

I really love the word 'fierce' because it's a brilliant adjective, but it's completely in line with what Emma said that strength and fierceness. It also shows how much he supports you, your success and your strength rather than being intimidated by it. So, I particularly love the word 'fierce', but what I want to focus on is the word 'humble.' We have talked about fame and you are a music star. When you've got all of this influence and all of these attention, how do you find a way to stay humble throughout all that?

I think it's my family. I mean, it's nothing like a sister and brother to bring you right back down to earth when you get, you know, a big head. But yeah, definitely family and good friends, and just keeping your loved ones close. I think is really important. And fame, it's not a real thing. You know, you've got to remember that anytime you're falling anyway. It's not real, you know, everyone has issues and body image issues and self-conscious issues, whatever it is. Nobody's perfect and we're all just human. And I think I've never forgotten that. And also, I think, you know, growing up in PNG, it's a third world country and having seen what other people, you know, how the other half live is just really humbling. You know, that's when you can go to a third world country and you really see how people live. There's no experience like that to bring you back down to earth.

I'm sure a lot of people don't even realise you were born in PNG.

Yes.

In Port Moresby and grew up there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When did you move to Australia?

I moved to Australia for boarding school. So, I think I was 12 and I went to an all-girls boarding school, which was a really life changing experience, crazy experience because I was so used to living with my family behind barbed wire, you know, really sheltered life. And then I came to an all-girls private school and I tell you what, I was in for another thing. But yeah, I think growing up in PNG has definitely shaped a lot of the person that I am today.

I also asked Emma to describe you in three words, and Emma did something that no one's ever done before. So typically, people pick three words. Emma's three words were a statement.

Oh. What is it?

It is, 'The ultimate influencer.'

Oh, it's nice.

When we talk about influencers often it is tide to that idea of social media, but it is possible to be influential even without a social media platform. Do you feel comfortable with influence?

I think I do now because it's authentic. Up until a year and a half ago, not so much because I was posting stuff that wasn't really authentic to me. So, but now, yes, I do. Yeah. But that's nice. That's a really nice statement.

So true. I imagine it must be very freeing for you to post stuff. And gosh, you must save a lot of time on not filtering things.

Yeah, I do. Look, like I still filter stuff because I like the colour aesthetic, but I don't use Facetune. I don't use, you know, I'm not always posting the best angles. And I think that is so freeing. It's a weight off your shoulders and you can just be yourself and no matter what anyone says, it doesn't matter because I like me and I like the way I look. And my boyfriend likes the way I look and he's very supportive, and nothing else really matters.

Lachlan also gave me a beautiful insight to you by saying, 'She genuinely has a burning desire to achieve and create change with what she does. She understands that not everyone will support her and she's fine with that.' And I love that concept as well because there's no element of you that's just going to bow to public pressure. Do you find you do get a lot of backlash or opposition in anything you do?

Oh, in everything I do! You can't please everyone, but if I let that stop me, I don't know where I'd be. I'd just be like sitting in my bedroom doing nothing. Yeah, when you do anything publicly, there's always going to be people on the opposite side saying you shouldn't be doing it. But I mean, I know that what I do comes from a good place, everything I do.

I think you can be humble and fierce at the same time.

You can be strong and shy as well, because I'm actually really shy, introverted person and I think you can't fall into this stereotypes of what it is to be a woman and you should like sit back and not have a strong opinion.

Yeah, sorry. Now I'm just rambling. (Laughs)

Such good points. I love that!

We mentioned that you're about to turn 30. You've obviously got a huge career ahead of you. But what does the future hold for Amy Sheppard? Obviously more music but is there anything else you'd still love to achieve? What can you see for yourself?

What can I see for myself? Look, I've got a few things up my sleeve that I'd love to share, but I can't yet but there's more coming, you guys. And I'm just going to continue being me and doing what I do authentically. And yeah, I would love to work out a little something more with 'Kiss My Fat Ass.' I'm not quite sure because there's a fine line between like giving a lot of yourself to the internet and not wanting to monetize it. And like giving the internet more. There's always people asking for more and more and more, but I'm not quite sure.  I haven't worked out what I'm going to do with 'Kiss My Fat Ass' but I will continue sharing my photos. With the music, lots of new songs coming. I'd like to have a few more singles that I'm singing on because a lot of the songs that George you know, George on lead vocals. And it's funny because not a lot of, you know, on YouTube, there's a few comments like, 'Bring the boy back. I like George's voice more.' So, that kind of drives me to do it more. I'm like, 'Excuse me?' Yes, so a lot more Amy singles and a few things that I can't mention. But I will be announcing if you are following me.

We're desperate to know. We're going to have to stay tuned.

(Laughs) Sorry, I'm trying to dance around that without giving too much away.

Fair enough. You do have to keep some secrets. Something that's about to happen in Brisbane is the AFL Grand Final. It's due to happen.

What's the chitter-chatter about this?

There's been a bit of a chitter-chatter about Sheppard performing at the Grand Final. You guys aren't locked in.

We aren't locked in. But we've got our hand up.

Do you?

We do! We’re like, 'Please pick us.'

Confidently up.

We would love that opportunity. It's in Brisbane. It's at the Gabba, just around the corner from where I live. And yeah, but we haven't heard yet. But you know, we'll see. Maybe I'm sure they'll announce it soon, right? We've heard some talk, you know, but I don't know. It's really hard. This industry is always really last minute. It could be like, 'You’re going to New York tomorrow, pack your bags.' So, we probably won't find out until everybody else finds out, to be honest.

You'll find out when it hits the media.

Yeah, but our management knows. They've put us forward, so we'll see.

And a pretty amazing opportunity, because this kind of stuff, like to be in your hometown is just another silver-lining of COVID.

I know. I mean, we wrote a whole song about Brisbane, as well. So, I think we'd be a good candidate. Of course, we were like, 'Oh look, it's Powderfinger, we're going to have the gig, like wow, like we'll bow down to that.' We'd love this opportunity, honestly. And yeah, it'd just be nice to have some local Australian music out there because so often we lose out to those international acts. So, I think COVID is going to really like work in our favour when we can start doing a little bit, when the events start back, I think it's going to be a really good thing for Australian music.

What are you most looking forward to doing once COVID over or the borders are open or life is seemingly returning to normal?

I think I'll be ready to jump on a plane, soon. We really do miss that interaction with our fans because we do a lot of touring throughout the year and just being able to have your fans singing your song back to you and being able to meet them after the shows. It's just not the same as doing like an online, like we're doing a lot of lives. We do a live a week. It's not the same. It's not the same. So, we really want to get out there and meet our fans. I think we've made some new fans this year, as well. So, it'd be great to put on a show so we can show everyone what we've got.

Well, Amy, thank you for joining me for 'My 30 Minutes. I'll put all of your details in the show notes. So, if people want to follow Amy on Instagram, make sure you check out the Sheppard website. I'll have it there, so you'll be able to find it. Amy, keep making music. Keep spreading the body positivity word and we will be following you for the ride.

Thanks, Kendall.

Laura Geitz

This chat was recorded for ‘My 30 Minutes’ the podcast. You can listen to it here.

Laura, welcome to 'My 30 Minutes' and welcome to the new Parkland Suite at the Emporium Hotel at Southbank. We've really elevated the location for this week's recording.

I don't think I'll ever want to leave. It's quiet, it's clean, and it is so beautiful.

I know, we need to have a dip in the pool after this. And quite a change of scenery for you and I because we got to know each other doing pilates at BodySmart in Paddington. You were pregnant with your second son, Frankie, who was born only a few weeks before my daughter, Olive. So, there's quite a short gap there, and they're both just over a year old now and you're expecting another baby.

I know, call me crazy, but the time just flies, as you mentioned, Frankie was one as was Olive. So, it really is a bit of a blur and here I go again. I think I had a moment of realisation this morning, as I was getting Barney ready for kindy and getting Frank ready and thinking, 'Where does the third one fit into this crazy jigsaw? And, you know, we've just actually got a little Shetland for Barney as well. So, she's become like another child because obviously the colder weather means she needs a rug on. So, we're growing out our family farm as well. So, it's just jobs galore. And it definitely keeps me busy. I think I just need to maybe rise a little earlier in the morning to tick-off all the jobs. But I had the conversation with my mum yesterday on the phone, I said, 'It's 8:30 and I feel like I've done a day's full work.'

I'm not surprised.

Like, I'm ready to turn the car around and go back to bed. But life is good and I'm very grateful for the over-abundance that we've gotten the busyness. That's for sure.

Three under four. You are definitely going to be busy!

Yeah, I know. It will be crazy times. But I mean, we're not the first people to do it. That's what my husband keeps saying, 'He's like, we're not the first to do it. And we definitely won't be the last. So, we’ve just got to get on with it.' So, I keep thinking those words in the back of my head.

I always think it's good if you're going to be in the trenches, just be in the trenches, and you'll rise out of them soon enough.

Yeah, we're just be in the hurt locker for quite some years, I think.

Family has undoubtedly played a huge role in your success as a netballer. Tell me about those early days as a young girl.  You grew up in Allora, which is about a two-hour drive west of Brisbane, it's 160K’s, but your family made some huge sacrifices to help you succeed?

Yeah, I always say now looking back on my childhood, I'm exceptionally grateful of what I had back then and completely took it for granted when I was growing up on a farm as a kid. You know, the endless space, the endless amount of animals, the endless amount of, you know, a farm that we had and all the other families that were growing up around us. It was just like one, any small communities like one big extended family. So, you know, it's now that I look back and think, 'Oh my goodness, I completely took that for granted as a kid.' Growing up in any small community, obviously sport is a huge part of that fabric, as well. That's obviously where my sporting journey began. And my parents as you mentioned, my family was such a huge support in allowing me to continue down that sporting path. I think when your parents are farmers and making a life off the land, it's not always easy, as we say now so much. You know, you reap what you sow, and it's so dependent on the seasons. So, for them to consistently give me the opportunity to pursue my sporting dreams, regardless of the struggles that they were facing with drought, etc is also something that I completely took for granted as a kid, and now I look back and think how lucky I was to have that.

You tell a wonderful story about your mom making a huge drive with you every day or maybe it wasn't every day, every week. How often was this?

Every weekend. Yeah. It was probably when, you know, netball for me, as a 15, 16-year-old really started taking off and I was required to come to Brisbane a lot more for training and for games. I have to say I had incredible coaches, too, that were based in Brisbane that would actually drive to Warwick to take me for sessions. It's such a huge part of my journey because they had families, they were women that, were school teachers that basically volunteered to coach, and also just found it in their hearts and their time to drive two and a half hours to take me for a one-off session here and there.

But it became a ritual every Friday afternoon, mum would pick me up after school and we would come down to Brisbane and stay until Sunday evening so, I could train and play, and I always say, I think mum and myself became really close at that time. It's such an impressionable age as a young girl, as a teenage girl and it's definitely not the cool thing to say that you love hanging out with your mom at that time, but I genuinely, I did! A lot of my other peers were heading out to parties and probably living a very different life. But I was listening to the Eagles with my mum in a Commodore car as we made our way down the Cunninghams Gap and it was a really special time for us. I think we definitely had some really great bonding time and not only that, even the people that were exposed to here in Brisbane, were very like-minded people. The girls, I found, I had an instant connection with, and mum was introduced to all these different people as well. So, it was like they opened their arms. They welcomed us and it was a really lovely experience for us to both enjoy together.

And not to downplay that either because I don't think people realise perhaps how challenging it is when you’re just to country kid and coming to the city, to the Big Smoke, is actually a really big deal. So, I can imagine as a teenager when you are so impressionable, that time could have also had the potential to be a little challenging, a little confronting an uncomfortable when you're small fish going into a big, big pond.

Oh, definitely. I remember walking into Boondall Entertainment Centre in the very early days, which was my first experience of trialling out for the Queensland team and I walked in and a pair of faded Canterbury ruggers and a Bonds white singlet, with numbers written on my legs and probably were wearing Lynx shoes and I walked into a Lorna Jane, Nike, just it was like a fashion parade of every great brand of clothing each girl was wearing. I thought 'This is the last place that I fit,’ I’m not even worthy of being here mixing it with these girls, they were gorgeous, they were fit, they just looked the part, and here I was this absolute dag and I'd never actually really thought that until that very point of walking into that stadium full of girls, I never had those doubts or concerns and it was just like it hit me straight in the face.

So, I actually don't know how I stayed there for that particular experience and it was a huge learning curve, and even now when I do clinics and I see the little girl that rocks up who, you know has the dirty shoes or the  clothes that don't fit or, you know, that just looks like she doesn't really fit, I think, 'You're the next best thing.' Like, you know, just give everyone the opportunity because you don't know what's underneath all those layers. So, it was definitely a big step for me, big step for mum, big step for my family, but very, very grateful that we were given that opportunity.

At what point in your teen years or your playing time did you work out that this is what you wanted to do for a career? Is there a defining moment?

I think from a very early age as soon as I started playing netball, I knew that I wanted to play netball forever. I just loved it! I just had this passion for playing. It was to the point that when a game would finish, I just wanted to continue to play. I always had that competitive nature and that instinct in me to win, I love the thrill of winning and I loved the thrill of coming up against somebody and being the underdog. I think that's probably what kept me there that day was the fact that I knew there was match play at the end of the day, and I got to take it to these girls. That was always this inner belief that I had, I don't care if I'm coming up against the best player, I know I can take it to her! And I always felt like that brought the best out in me. I always, I had that belief that I wanted to compete, and I wanted to win.

But the defining moment for me was when Cathy Freeman won her gold medal at the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games.

I remember sitting in my loungeroom, I think I was in year 7, and just thinking, I just want to achieve, I want to have that feeling of wearing the green and gold and winning a gold medal. I just had it in the back of my mind and then when I discovered netball, which was a little bit later. I think, for me, thinking that that was my path and that was where I was going to achieve that same feeling and success was on the netball journey. So, the answer to that was, yeah, from a very young age. I just knew that I wanted to pursue netball and do well at it.

How incredible that Cathy Freeman played such an instrumental role in just the mentality for you of wanting to achieve that success. Very cool. Have you ever told her that story?

Yeah, I actually wrote her a letter for the Olympics when she was competing, and she never responded to me. (Laughs) She's probably a little preoccupied with the thousands of other letters and focusing on winning a gold medal. But the funny thing is, there’s been a lot of girls, that, you know, I've played my careers with that had that same moment.

Really?

It just goes to show the impact of one woman's work and how much that can play a role in shaping other ideas and thoughts for particularly younger athletes. So, younger girls that are coming through the ranks.

No doubt you have had that impact on so many other girls, I'm sure. Sometimes when we're young were pushed into things, say because we tick a few boxes. Take your height, for example, you're 190 centimetres tall, which is about 6 ft 2. You've been this height since you were entering high school. And I imagine that does make people instantly assume, 'Laura she'd be great at netball, She's tall.' Did that happen for you?

Yeah, definitely. My height was something I desperately disliked about myself from a young age because it obviously made me stand out in a bad way. Particularly amongst all my peers! When you're a teenager, you don't necessarily have the will-power or he strength to look past what you think is your biggest weakness at the time, and I really struggled with the fact that I stood out. I just wanted to be normal. I just wanted to be like every one of the other girls in my class. To paint the picture, I was as tall as the year 12 boys at my school when I was in year 8. So, I used to just dread things like school assemblies where that was like show. And I used to feel like every school assembly, everyone would come into that room and it was like, 'Oh, my gosh, look at Laura. She's as tall the year 12 boys.' And probably nobody would think that, but it just consumed me every single day of my life.

So, I was definitely pigeon-holed into, 'Yep, you'll be great at netball.' And I was, you know, the truth was from early on, I was terrible. I was put in the goal-shooter a position and I couldn't shoot, but they shifted me down to the defensive end and I just found the place that I felt at home and for the very first time, I felt like my height was a huge advantage. It helps me get intercepts. It helped me put pressure over the shot and I was applauded for it. Whereas walking through school it was where I was laughed at. So, it was the one place that my height was really celebrated. So, for me, that was one of the reasons as to why I just really clicked with the game early on.

I'm about 20 centimetres shorter than you. So, I'm 170 centimetres and like you, I was this tall at 12. So, going into grade 8, and I remember finding it incredibly awkward. I was so much taller than all the boys. It was just all limbs. And I remember getting picked on, so I can't even imagine how difficult it must have been for you having even that extra height. I'm curious. Did the treatment you received in school, was that able to spur you on on the netball court?

Yeah, I think so. I mean, at the time I hated it. You know, my initials, Laura Geitz, L.G., became 'Little Giraffe' and I was just the laughingstock and it was probably from my other peers, particularly the boys, like they didn't realise the impact that it was having. It was just a bit of a joke amongst themselves. Whereas there comes a time when enough is enough. And it's like, how many times can you poke the bear before the bear gets really angry? I think through my schooling years, I never had the strength to retaliate or stand up. I was particularly shy and I thought, I've just got to cop this, which I did. It wasn't until I was then introduced to those other girls that I mentioned earlier about the fact that they were exactly the same person just in a very, very different place. You know, they were as tall as me. So, here, I was going, 'Well, I'm not the only person in the world that looks like this. I might feel like this out in the country, but there's so many girls that are the same height, that are the same shape, that you know, are experiencing the same thing.' So, I think there was that time from Monday to Friday, I was going to school and go, 'Um, here we go again.' And then on the weekend, I'd be like, ‘But I'm surrounded by these women that are the same.’ So, I always say, and I say this to young girls too..

..what I thought was my biggest weakness as a youngster actually turned out to be one of my greatest strengths..

because without my height, I wouldn't have been able to play the career that I played. 100% all the people that told me along the way that I needed thus to be the best netballer, or I needed this skill, or I needed to look like this, or I needed to act this way, we're all my biggest motivators. They were the ones when I stood in the transverse line wearing the green and gold and sang the national anthem of my country, were the ones their faces were on a video reel of, 'Here I am! You told me that I wouldn't be able to be at this point and here I am.' So, I now look back and go whilst you are going through it, it's really difficult to find any good in it, but they're actually biggest motivators. And they're the ones that make you achieve the things that you go on to achieve.

Life is often made up of many defining moments, some good, some bad. Tragically during your career as a netballer, you lost your dad, Ross Geitz. This was in 2013 and you were only in your early 20s. He died out on the farm at Allora. And this turned out to be a huge year for you. You went on to lead the Australian team for the first time winning the Constellation Cup against New Zealand and then just a few months later, you were named the captain of the Aussie team to compete at the 2014 Commonwealth Games. How do you think, I guess just the depth and gravity of life and death, would have played a role in your career at that time?

You look back on those moments and you think, first, 'How did I actually do that?' I think there's definitely an element of shock, that first six to 12 months of tragically losing someone who is so incredibly special to you, that was with you one day and gone the next. Nothing prepares you for that moment! So, I think that you find yourself treading water and in a very strange place where people deal with it very, very differently. And for me, I often speak to mum about it and say I think we were just in shock. For me, family was always, and is always paramount in our lives, so the focus was making sure that mum was okay. And obviously you mentioned being on a farm, the tricky parts of what happens to the farm now? So, there was all those elements that needed to be obviously worked out, but I think I returned to playing for the Firebirds a couple of weeks after losing dad. I can't remember that game. I can't remember really the rest of the season, but for me, the return to netball was probably my family away from my family. So, it was a place where I could truly escape for an hour of training, or two hours of training, go to some normality and forget the horror that we were actually living through at that time. So, that was a really big part in my process of working through it. I think always in the back of my head, and I always knew that dad would want me to continue to play. I had that feeling that you know, yeah, why not? Like, don't stop you know, you've got to keep doing this. And that's where I found myself to be in the position of being elevated into that captaincy role for the Diamonds, it was the whole experience and 2013 bought a lot of perspective.

I actually remember the Firebirds made the grand final that year and we lost in Adelaide. I remember sitting on the bench next to two of the other girls from the Firebirds' team and we lost, we played pretty badly and we lost by a few goals and they were sitting on the bench, just crying, crying, crying. I remember just thinking, I looked at one of the girls and I just said it's going to be okay. And she said, 'This is the worst thing that has ever happened to me.' And I said, 'Well, if this is the worst thing that's ever happened to you, then you're doing pretty well.' You know, this passes, and I think perspective..

..you have to be taught perspective through some pretty challenging times..

And 2013 was my challenging year which taught me a whole lot about perspective. And really, I think set my mindset correctly for the rest of my career and where I was heading. So yeah, I mean, I was surrounded by some incredible people to get me, you know, through those times, that's for sure.

During your farewell speech when you were retiring from the sport, you quoted your dad in that speech, and I want to re-quote him through you, he had said to you, 'Every opportunity that comes your way, grab it with two hands. Treat everybody the same way. Always know that there's going to be someone better than you. Always remain humble. And take the game to the best place you can and leave it there for your time for the next person to come and take over.' There's so much warmth and wisdom in those words. Did it influence how you approached your career when you decided to retire, those thoughts and words from your dad?

Yeah, I think those words were with me through every element of my career - from start to finish when he was still here with us and then when we lost him. Those words were what I used to take with me to school athletics days at primary school. You'd come home with a blue ribbon and say, 'Dad, I won the hundred metres.' And he’d said, 'Oh, mate, that's so great but you know, you go to the next stage now you go to Warwick athletics and there's going to be someone better than you there.' It was that element of always knowing that those what you just read there, there was so much to it that was used at different times. And not just related to the sporting world but related to life in general and it's how he lived his life. For me, that is exceptionally important. That it's very easy for people to say things, but for people to say things and live them through their daily actions for other people to see is exceptionally powerful. That's why that had so much impact on me as a person, as a kid growing up and even now, because he lived his words. It’s even incredibly important for me to pass that on to our children. I loved that probably dad's biggest strength was his ability to treat everybody very similar and to give everybody the time of day and to hear everybody's stories about where they've come from and what makes them tick. It's not just about sport, it's about life in general. Hearing people's stories and where they've come from, I think there's so much power to be heard from each other's journeys. And I think that gets a little bit lost these days. So, particularly in the leadership role, that was really important to understand your other team members, not everyone's the same, everyone's got a different set of skills, but allowing them to use their skills and their strengths to the very best of their ability. So, I always say..

.. we were exceptionally unfortunate to lose dad, but I was exceptionally fortunate to have the best role model that I could have for 24 years of my life.

Some people don't get that at all. So, you know, you got to obviously, take the good and the bad.

Last year the Firebirds renamed their Most Valuable Player Award, the Laura Geitz Medal. In 2017, you were immortalized in bronze. You have a beautiful statue. Those two things alone show just the impact you made on the game and the community. Why do you think you've been so successful?

That's a such a hard question to answer, but it's because I played with incredible women and was surrounded by incredible women. So, every single day that I went to work, I didn't necessarily go to work. I did what I absolutely love to do. And I say that the statue represents the hours of driving my parents did, the incredible players I played along, beside the coaches that came to Allora to coach me. I was lucky. I just had amazing people along my journey that actually just made me love so much what I got to do. I want little girls that watch me play to see how much I loved the game. Just through pure excitement and love of being out there on court.

Do you think you're able to define success?

Success for me is doing something that you love.

You know, there's going to be obviously the really challenging times. But again, to quote my dad, he said to us from an early age, 'When you get up in the morning, or when you choose what you want to do for the rest of your life, you have to get up in the morning and say, I'm not going to work today, you know, I'm off to do what I love. And when you reach that destination, and when you find what it is that connects with you in that way that's when you know, you're doing the right thing.' And for me, it was netball. And now it's all the opportunities that that has brought me post, you know, playing out there on the court.

I've spoken to one of your close friends Gretel Tippett, who you played alongside. You were even a bridesmaid for her earlier this year. So, undoubtedly, you're good mates. She's told me a little bit about you. And just to summarize, she talked about your love of netball and saying you were so successful because you actually really loved what you did. You do have natural ability, but you put in the work and because you loved it. It just all paid-off. She did go on to say that you were the hardest opponent she's ever played against. And it's so much better being on your team.

Wow, bless her.

She talked about your killer instinct on court, though, and I'm always curious about that. You mentioned your competitive nature earlier. But also, you're one of the kindest people I know, Laura. So, I find it really hard to reconcile that kind of killer instinct white line fever and the kind generous person that you are off the court.

Yeah. And it's funny because I love the thrill of winning, and it was win at all costs. I was so happy to put my body on the line. You know, I just loved it and I loved those moments. I felt like I just pined for those tight contests where a team would come back or it was a one-point goal. I used to dream about being the person that took the winning intercept. So, I just loved the pressure. I felt like it brought out the best in me and maybe it comes back to those early days of those, you know, kids pushing the button and I always find that I do have a level head at times but when somebody pushes me over the edge or when somebody questions, you know, what I stand for or gets in the way of what I feel really strongly about, then that's when my killer instinct comes out and that's just me and you know it's a case of poking the angry bear and you might have to poke quite a few times but then when, you know, that final poke comes, that pushes me over the edge, that's when that killer instinct comes out. And you know, I surprised myself at times when I told Mark my husband, I was retiring. He said, 'That is so great. I'm so excited about all the weekends we get to spend together now. I'm just really concerned about where you're going to channel your inner anger.

How's that going?

Oh my gosh, you probably should ask him and not me because there's definitely times that he's just like, 'Holy Dooley, who is this person?' So yeah, I think there's there's that killer instinct and it does come out at times. It doesn't always come out, but it's definitely there.

I always ask a friend or family member of my guest to describe them in three words and Gretel, use the words 'kind, beautiful heart and a true leader'. We have talked about your kindness and your beautiful heart, But I'm interested in leadership because from the moment I met you, you do have a presence that commands almost attention and following. I can't really explain it but you're the sort of person that when you meet you, you want to follow you. And, I want to know, do you feel an ease with that level of leadership and really being influential? Because before the word influencer was used for social media, people were naturally influential, and you have that gift. Is leadership something you think about consciously?

No, it's not and I think I've had some pretty, what's the word? I think I've had some real life, hard lessons in leadership. And probably the one thing that stood out to me was when I was put in that role, and I thought suddenly because I was put in this role, I had to change everything about who I was as a person. And some of the best advice I was ever given was through Lisa Alexander, who was the coach of the Australian Diamonds at the time, and she said to me, 'The reason you're in this position is because of everything that you've done in the past. So, why go changing now?'

So, I had an exceptionally steep learning curve in that leadership role, particularly for the Diamonds. It definitely didn't go to plan and it was a case of really a gun on my face in a way. But for me now looking back, I'm exceptionally grateful for that experience. And what I always say to people about leadership is everyone is very different. Everyone's on a different journey. Everybody has a different set of skills. What you bring as a leader isn't necessarily what the leader prior to you was all about, but that's okay. The biggest thing is about you remaining authentic to who you are as a person and genuine and keeping that genuine behaviour. I think when you are real and when you are authentic to who you are, people do follow you because they sense that realness and that's all people want. It's not saying that you're the best leader that's ever been and everything that you do is right, but it's you having the comfort to be who you are, and that transfers across so many areas. And that only comes through experience and age and maturity, but when somebody's 100% comfortable in their own skin, people gravitate towards you. I think that was what I, through many learnings, base my whole leadership journey on, was just staying true to who I was as a person always being open and knowing that I wasn't always right and taking feedback on board. But you know, giving everybody the time and trying to be better while remaining true to who I was. So, leadership's a funny one, you know, you can talk for hours and hours on end and still remain in the same spot, I believe, at times.

Well, I have no doubt your leadership will continue to take you to many wonderful places. Laura, genuinely you are a true inspiration. Thank you so much for spending 30 minutes with me. You've impacted so many lives already. And I have no doubt you'll continue to do so. Thanks for your time.

Thank you so much for having me.

Matt Sinclair

This chat was recorded for ‘My 30 Minutes’ the Podcast. You can listen to it here.

Matt, welcome. It's a pinch me moment to finally be sitting down with you. We’ve been working on this catch-up for a couple of weeks now. So, welcome to 'My 30 Minutes.'

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Very exciting.

We're sitting down in Sum Yung Guys, and I'm curious, do you ever sit back and look at what you've created here? It's early in the morning, so there's no one around, but do you get to look around and feel a sense of pride or accomplishment?

Yeah, I think it's a  hard thing to explain to people that they think it's a bit of a throwaway long and you say like, most days, you have that moment where you feel that incredible pride. You can listen to the dining room at night when you're in the kitchen. You hear it thumping. There really is no better feeling.

Hospitality is such a funny thing because you spend so much time in the kitchen, well before anyone's even here, for people to come at 5pm and enjoy what you've spent the whole day working on.

I guess it's the beauty of the industry and it's what we aim for. We're here to create moments for people. People generally come out, they're celebrating, they're catching up, they're socialising, all really special moments in people's lives, and for us to be here to make things happen and to try to polish things as much as possible before they get here, both in the dining room and in the kitchen and then to try and execute good evenings and good experiences for people, it's high on the list of things that we aim for. So, it's a very special place to be within the community.

Most people will know you from your time on MasterChef. You were an early favourite. You made it all the way to the final on your season. You were just pipped at the post. I'm wondering, did coming second help you, do you think it spurred you on?

Oh absolutely! I'll never forget that the immediate feeling of the disappointment, the frustration, the what ifs. All of that sort of starts to flood-in and then soon after, I think getting back out into the real world, it really spurred me on to be like, 'Okay, I really need to get out here and start setting goals and kicking them at the same time.' And it was just a full attack. I just got out and just went for it. And really, in all honesty in the past five years… I haven't really stopped.

You talk about disappointment. What was that moment like? Does it take a while to digest?

Ah! Yeah. It's a lot to take in. I think, when you're in that environment, it's a very sheltered environment. You don't have a lot of stimulus coming from the external world. You don't have a lot of touch with your family and your friends. It's a very obviously high pressure, high stress, and after six or seven months of it, it starts to take its toll and then to get to the finish line essentially, and just have it slip away, it was pretty tough to digest, yeah.

You're obviously very passionate about food and what you do. I've read a quote of yours where you say, 'You can't describe a passion for food. It's something you have to feel.' What is it about food that captivates you so much?

It's exactly that. It's the feeling I get when I'm cooking it, when I'm reading about it, when I'm eating it, when I'm talking about it, when I'm looking at produce, everything, it's all encompassing. I get that feeling on so many different levels and it's only when you sit down and have a chat with a fellow food nerd and someone that's so passionate about that understands it, you know, that they get it. It's certainly something deep within that's been acquired over many many years of having a love for it.

I love that, really, it's almost what you've been called and made to do and you've been able to find that and tap into it, and now get to make a career out of it.

I am! One of my favourite ever quotes is…

'There's the two most important days in your life and it's the day you were born and the day you find out why.'

And that's truly how I feel about being in the kitchen and doing what I get to do. So, yeah, it's an absolute blessing to have discovered that.

It's brilliant! Look, I've spoken to a couple of your biggest fans in preparation for our chat. Firstly, I spoke to Gary Mehigan, who is one of the country's best-known chefs. He was a judge on your season. He's turning up on Channel 7 next week on Plate of Origin. He says that when you turned up on the show, you knew exactly what you wanted to do afterwards. Which actually coined a phrase for him, which he still uses to this day which is, 'plan going in like Matt Sinclair.’ So, you've become the poster boy for preparation and knowing what you want to do after MasterChef. What were you hoping to achieve once filming wrapped?

For as long as I can remember, throughout my whole working life since I've had my first job in a deli when I was 13, I've always wanted to have my own business. I've always wanted to have the freedom to make my own decisions and to have that creative freedom to execute my own ideas, but also be responsible for how that business runs. I always used to look at the small business owners and my bosses throughout my career and in all honesty, they all inspired me to want to have that for myself and for my family. So, going into MasterChef, I think, one of the biggest traps that people can fall into or the idea is that you're going onto a reality TV show and then everything will just take care of itself, which is just really not the case at all. I did have a pretty good mind map of how I wanted things to move forward after leaving the show. And I guess where we're sitting now is kind of the pinnacle of that. But it's taken a lot of hard work and many years to get here. But that was the goal, so I guess, it goes without is saying, if you you're going to go into a competition or going to take on an opportunity like that, you've got to have a serious format and strategies in place, otherwise, you're just wasting your time.

 After the show, you did have lots of opportunities open up. I would say that there's a couple of reasons that is. You were so lovable on the show. You wore your heart on your sleeve and the country really fell in love with who you were, which makes a huge difference because there's plenty of other people on there, but few make a mark like that. But you did also have a plan and you really had a clear vision and you made that known throughout your season what you were hoping to do. So, when these opportunities come along, we've seen you do things like being an Ambassador for Tourism Queensland and you've travelled our state and cooked in amazing places. You've cooked for celebrities at private dinners, things like that. Were you prepared for those experiences? Maybe you just thought you'd have your own business, but you've had these incredible opportunities.

Yeah, there's been a lot of extra-curricular opportunities that have come with it. Which even to this day sometimes you've really got to stand back and just sort of process it because it can, as exciting as it can be, it can certainly, I guess freak you out a little bit. So yeah, you know, it's opened up a whole new world that I never thought I'd see. That's for sure. Being able to travel, being able to mix in circles that I never dreamed possible and even just the networking in that that's come with it and how that's all full circle in playing a role in Sum Yung Guys, you know, in the relationships that we now have and get to move forward with, is been a, you know, phenomenal asset to what happens at home base. So yeah, and the thing is. you never know when the next one's coming from. Like, some days you just get-up going like, 'What? Yeah, sure, let's do it.' And that's the exciting thing about it.

What would perhaps be one of the most gnarly things you've been asked to do?

Ah, going cooking over in India. That was a that an experience. We cooked in two separate locations. The first one, you know, it was this enormous hotel with a kitchen wherein we struggled to find a stainless-steel bowl. So, it was just like the most basic set up and try to... That was actually for BMW India. Just dealing with the chaos, dealing with the line of 'Yes, yes, it's on its way. Yes.' It's like, 'Where are all my ingredients?' like as this, 'What is this?' It was just like Fawlty Towers. So, that was you know, we did a couple of those dinners over there and it was an amazing experience and we got some downtime outside of India. But yeah, the kind of just having to wing it and stand back and go, 'Well, this is where we are. And this is what's happening. Let's get into it.' Yeah, that was probably the strangest.

Were you just cooking for like clients of BMW?

It was corporate partners of people that own dealerships over there. And the MasterChef following in India is just...

Huge.

Phenomenal. So yeah, it's pretty intense. But definitely that gets notched up as one of the greatest experiences.

Also, when you finish the show, you took a little bit of time, but you eventually launched your own restaurant where we're sitting, Sum Yung Guys. And that was three years ago, you chose this location, which has actually been a failure three times for other restaurants before you decided to take it on. There must have been an extraordinary amount of pressure on you choosing this venue and deciding to take that leap.

It was one of those moments though, you know, it's like, if you walk-in to view a house or you go to, you know, look at cars, you sort of as soon as you see the one that you're like, 'Yep, this feels right.' We walked into the building, the structure and everything was very different to what else is on offer in town. And yes, it had been a little bit of a graveyard for restaurants before us. But we really believed and backed ourselves with what we were going to do and we were going to, I guess slightly change the landscape as to what sort of food had been cooked in Noosa previously. You know, when we first got here, the courtyard was, it was like a scene out of Jumanji. It's just like, overgrown, there was just. rubbish everywhere. There was... We're pretty confident that they were forced to just being locked out. Because there was still like things in the fryer. And, yeah, very interesting. So, it was a lot of elbow grease to do a big deep clean and to get it reset. But yeah, I mean what we're able to turn it into, it's got the personality of the four boys in here. And it's going to be sad to leave but you know, exciting times ahead.

You mentioned the four boys very few people would go into business with their friends. It's one of those pieces of advice that a lot of people give you. I think Gary himself even said to you, 'Don't do it. Don't go into business with your friends.' But he's also openly said you have proved him wrong 100%. What has your experience been like being in business with your friends?

People thought we're mad. And I think, like each one of the boys was getting it from their family and their other friends. 'What are you doing? Like, it's just psychotic.' In all honesty, like I said, everyone thought it was going be our greatest downfall, it's been our greatest strength. We really do understand each other, And don't get me wrong, there's been moments and days where it's been, you know, quite intense. But we've just had to learn that it's got to be totally transparent. If there's an issue it's like, right in the group chat meeting. "Let's all get together and work through it.' And then at the end of the day, we just somehow managed to massage out everyone's opinions and what everyone's you know, looking for and find the common ground. Because we know at the end of the day, it's all for the greater good.

It's about making this business strong enough to withstand the next couple of decades and move forward still loving what we do and working as a team.

What are the actual nuts and bolts involved in four people mutually owning and running a business? How do you split up your roles?

To this day, we don't really have job descriptions. In all honesty, I think we've all just figured out the ebb and flow of what needs to be done. And it happens organically, and you know, if there's pressing issues that need to be taken care of, whoever can put it on their plate and do it. And, you know, there's certain guys that deal with certain suppliers and those sorts of things and have those relationships to maintain. You know, and who pays the bills and who does the payroll and all that sort of stuff. They're all locked in. But yeah, it's just this, I don't know. It's very hard to explain. And this is why a lot of people just don't get it like, 'How is this working?' Scratching their heads. But yeah, we make an incredibly solid team.

 Since that day of opening in 2017. You have been packed. Obviously, there's always a lot of hype when a new restaurant opens, and having your face behind, it would have definitely generated some anticipation and excitement in this community. But even just in the southeast corner, I think a lot of people are willing to drive from Brisbane to come and experience your food. It is always a challenge getting a booking here, which I'm sure many people give you a bit of a hard time about. In the words of Gary, he described that as 'super success,' knowing that this area had been a failure in the past, knowing that there was so much anticipation, but then that initial wave could easily fall away. So not just ordinary success, 'super success.' How does that make you feel?

Anyone that's ever been in the restaurant game will understand that it's not an easy slog. So, debating that position, to have that demand for bookings constantly and we have had it for over three years now. I think if anything that just makes us switch on just that little bit more to make sure that we're maintaining what we've been delivering for the past three years. How do we continue to reinvent ourselves and get better and offer fresh ideas, whilst at the same time not losing sight and not losing touch with the whole reason why we started this place and not getting ahead of ourselves? You know, people have asked us countless times, 'When are you going to open another one? When are you going to put one in Brisbane? When are you going to...' And we've always just said, 'We'd never going to spread ourselves too thin.'

It's such a fragile formula and if you push it too far, it could come crashing down.

And you've seen it happen with restaurants that go big and they go chain style, it loses the heart and soul. So, I think we sort of owe it to ourselves and all of the people that have backed us from day one, to just continue on that path.

Talking about your super success as a restaurant, for you personally, are you able to define success?

On a personal level for success, I think that feeling in all honesty comes and goes, because I don't think that feeling is permanent because you sort of have to take the good with the bad and I think it's successes is, when you can have those moments when you're nailing the balance between your personal and your professional and your, you know, the social aspects of your life, your health. When you have those small glimpses, when all that is in sync, then that's when you're, you know, that to me, that is success. And you see these super humans out there that operate on these incredibly high levels and manage to keep all that together. You know, I think the hardest part is people look on your Instagram account and they think that it's just this glossy road to success day in, day out which, you know, we all know that's not the case. Professionally, I think the biggest thing for me was, as I said before, to be able to have the freedom to make my own decisions and take control of my future, and how we build that life together as a family and with the four of us boys, you know. So, it's a very difficult thing to define. It's a never-ending thing. You know, you've got to maintain it. There’re so many moving parts in life in general. So, to be able to tie them together and get them in sync. When you do have those fortunate moments, and yeah, that's to me that's where it counts.

I couldn't agree more, because I feel like you can have glimpses of success in your life. But yeah, perhaps it doesn't last.

Exactly. I think the dangerous thing is to try to cling on to it and then get frustrated when it's not there. It doesn't mean that it's gone away. It's just you know, things change, things move. And you've just got to try and keep up with it and manage it and juggle it. And it's like, you see like parents out there juggling multiple children and they're still working and you know, being able to keep all that together. That's... People think that I'm busy with what I do and I'm like, 'Oh man, I don't think I could tackle that.' So, it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

You've touched on family a bit and I hear that your beautiful wife, Jess and your son Spencer, are a huge ingredient to your success and you're saying that having your family life is a big part of what brings you joy. Jess has encouraged you to take this ride wholeheartedly, from what I've heard. She's really held the fort at home so that you can really push forward with all these opportunities. And your son Spencer reminds you to stop and enjoy the simple things because you're obviously a bit of an Energizer bunny so it might take a bit to get you to chill out How important is family?

Oh, it's the key. It's what, I guess it's that multi-faceted thing where it's like it surges me on to want to push as hard as possible into to really make moves and make things happen. But at the end of the day, then it's like, okay, you know, you got to wind it back. And it is hard when you when you go on this ride that has been the last five years and it's been non-stop and it's been high energy and fast-moving compared to, you know, just working in a coffee shop and plodding along and spending your afternoons down at the dog beach and things like that. Like, a lot has changed. But yeah, it's the absolute key in wanting me to strive for more but at the same time trying to be mindful to stop and enjoy it and spend time with them.  And because really at the end of the day, it is the most important thing. And it is very easy to get caught up in the hype. And the, 'Oh, I'm so busy and this is great and we've achieved this and the restaurants done that.' But yeah, at the end of the day, that could all go away tomorrow. And if family's still intact, well, that's a win.

Couldn't agree more. I've asked a couple of your friends and family to describe you in three words. It's something I love to do to get a bit of an insight from third parties about how people see you. So firstly, I'll start with Gary. Gary said his three words were 'heart, passion and drive.' We've already talked a lot about your passion and your drive. So, I want to focus on 'heart'? He says you're a big softie, very sensitive.

(Laughs)

Would you say that those qualities make you more successful though? As a bloke they sound very emasculating, I understand, but..

I'm a massive, massive softie. I'm a shocker. But yeah, I think at the same time, like I guess so because I do tend to think of the more emotional side of things. How the people around me are being affected by my decisions. And really sort of, I think that's probably one of the biggest drivers for our decisions. And also, how I reflect on my decisions and how I, you know, whether I change to moving forward and assess them. So, I think yeah, that the self-reflection side of it and in terms of me being a big softie, has probably got a little bit to do with how things have panned-out and how we will continue to move forward.

Matt Preston's another person that I've had chat with. Another judge from your season on MasterChef. He said, you're a 'top bloke, honest and a bit of a dag.' What do you think he means by a bit of a dag?

So, we have this like running joke between myself and Matt Preston and, you know, you would think me being someone in the food industry,  that I only like the finer things, but I'll never forget the day I told Matt Preston I love supermarket (??? Unclear). And he's just like, 'That is foul, and you should be ashamed of yourself.' And I'll just send him little random things here and there about like other like, supermarket sushi and things like that. And I'm like, 'How good is this? And he's just like, not impressed by it at all.

So, it's a bit of an ongoing joke.

It's an ongoing joke. Yeah. He's a good man.

He is a good man. Your sister Rachel is someone I've also been in touch with. Rachel was very insightful when it came to you. She's one of your biggest supporters and we talked at length about your strengths and the qualities that have made you so successful. But in picking sort of three key traits to describe you, she called you 'determined', said you 'had a heart of gold' and you're a 'risk-taker'. So, I don't feel like, again, we've sort of talked a bit about your determination and your heart. So, I want to focus on risk-taking because she says that most people wouldn't dream of taking the risks that you do and that it's a really admirable trait. For someone who was thinking about, say, starting a business, auditioning for a reality TV show, starting a new career, what would be your advice? Where do you find the courage to take risks that to other people might seem like stupid decisions?

I'm an ultimate risk-taker. I'm very much all about going, 'You've got nothing to lose.' And I think that was the biggest thing for me about making the decision of going on MasterChef was, if I didn't do it, I would look back for the rest of my life and it would just eat away at me and bother me. If anyone is out there and you're presented with an opportunity, I actually read an... I like quotes. So, I read an amazing quote a couple of days ago. And it said, ‘If you're given the opportunity to try something new and crazy and you don't know, say yes, and figure it out along the way.' Because you just never know where it's going to end up. And yeah, crazy opportunities don't come across every day. But if you're open to it, it's exciting. That's what we're here to do. It's here to take risks and to challenge ourselves and to evolve and break the mould. Step outside of the comfort zone and just throw it into the wind and see what can happen. Because you can tell how I'm just talking about it now. I love it. And trust me there's been wins and losses. But it's just for me, it's all part of the ride.

And the background to that story is, you apparently needed a fair bit of coaxing to go on MasterChef. You didn't think you had what it took to kind of go on the show. Rach said, you used to go to her house and she'd give you a mystery box.

Yep. Yeah. (Laughs)

So, you could have a crack at cooking whatever they threw at you.

Yep, I remember. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. Because deep down I knew I was, what I thought within myself, I'm passionate about food and I'm pretty handy in the kitchen. But my biggest fear was going on national TV and being told by Matt, Garry and George, 'You can't cook, mate.' I just couldn't come to terms with that and I couldn't get my head around it. And then yeah, as I said, I knew it would eat away and then I just had to have that moment. And with the support of friends and family going, 'You'll be fine. You'll be fine. Just get on there and do what you do.' And I'll never forget hitting 'submit' on the application form, I was like, 'That felt good.'

How amazing that it felt good.

Yeah, well, I had a lot of fear to overcome to get to that point.  And I think, since having done that, it's kind of set the blueprint for how I make decisions now. Like, if something like that comes up now, there might be a, you know, not the best way to go about it and I can sometimes put the cart before the horse. But yeah, I think it's, I've seen what can happen if you take a chance. And you know, so if they keep coming up, I'm going to keep taking them.

Amazingly, Rach says you are destined for success. She says you've got an incredible palate, which is a real natural gift. She said, you can get him to taste anything and you'll know what's missing. Or maybe what it'd pair well with which like not everyone has. So, you were probably bound to do really well.

Yeah, yeah. I'm not... I wouldn't feel comfortable to sit here like. 'Yeah, I've got a good palate.' But yeah, I think I have a deep understanding of food on so many different levels and an appreciation for it. And I have the curiosity to like. I'm always trying something different. I'm always wanting to get like, move to a different cuisine and do something I've never done before and taste it to again, just deepen that understanding for everything that's out there because I've said it so many times. For me, the exciting thing about food is, I'm never going know it all, never ever. It's endless. But that's, you know, why I love it. That's it's always something to chase, always something to learn and always room to grow.

Speaking of your risk-taking, COVID has obviously brought so many challenges to everyone during 2020. Sum Yung Guys was no exception. You had to close your doors for a period of time. You've re-opened and like everyone else, you've got to make sure you're following a COVID safe plan. People are socially distanced while they're in your restaurant. But on top of all of that, you and the team have taken a huge risk. And you've bought a brand-new venue. So, in 2021, you're moving.

We are.

Which is like, no one's investing in this current climate.

No.

You guys were like, ‘Let’s buy a new venue. Let's move somewhere.'

(Laughs) You said that out well. Yeah, it's something that we've aimed for from day one, that was always the game plan. We will be coming to the end of our lease here. The opportunity was there, the space is right for us, the location's good, just it was ticking so many boxes. And we're now at that phase in our life cycle where we want to just take more control of our future, and we're in a position to do so. And everything just lined up. We didn't exactly want to sign up for another four years and be locked in and miss out on that space. So, with the help of a good sort of strategic team around us, that we're able to saw it all up and away we go. So, I could not think of a better way to start 2021. I think, it's goes without saying 2020's something...

Pretty rubbish.

(Laughter) Right. So yeah, I think it'd be a really good energy for us to start the new year in exciting new space. Some great menu ideas. And yeah, the kick-off to what will be Sum Yung Guys' forever home is amazing.

Forever home, you think?

Oh yeah.

So, can you tell us anymore, is it any bigger? Will it be easier to get a booking? (Laughs)

It is bigger. So, it's about it's about 150 square metres bigger than where we are now. But the whole idea about taking on a bigger space was not essentially to put more seats in. I think, there's been some things lacking in our dining room. We want to have a nice big bar lounge area and have the capacity to put those things in, to make it a little bit more comfortable for people. Put some bigger tables and spread them out and have a bit more fun with the dining room. So, it's not... For us, it was never about cramming more people in and doing more numbers. It was about having it exactly how we've always wanted it and being able to make it as great an experience for everyone as possible. So that's the plan.

Looking forward to it. Well, in the words of Matt Preston, he says, 'The sunny coast community love you because it's like watching a local lad done good coming home.' And moving into your forever home for Sum Yung Guys. Couldn't be more apt. Let's hope the success continues in the years to come. We will be cheering you on. Matt, thank you so much for spending 30 minutes with me. And good luck for 2021.

Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure. Loved it.

Pip Forbes

This chat was recorded for ‘My 30 Minutes’ the Podcast. You can listen to it here.

Pip, welcome to ‘My 30 Minutes’! I can't tell you how grateful I am to be sharing some time with you because you're really really busy. Did you ever think that creating a show for kids would mean that you were working in a full-time job doing that?

No, never. And I think if I had have known the amount of work and pressure, self-imposed or otherwise, that would come with it, then I may be a little bit more hesitant to kind of go down that road. But I'm really grateful that I was just so driven by what the outcome was going to be and what the impact would be that I was able to kind of stay on path and I've overcome a couple of obstacles.

I love your drive and your ambition and ambition is a word that can often, maybe comes with a bit of negative connotations, but for me, it's a really, it’s a pivotal part of how I feel about my work and I love seeing that in you. You had an extremely successful television career, but it wasn't actually something you set out to do. How did you find yourself with a very prized presenting role on Channel 10?

Yeah, I mean, it came about from actually a bit of applying for a junior PR job at Channel 10, which I just missed out on getting. And I was a bit disappointed about that because that's what I was studying at uni. And I thought maybe that could be the path that I wanted to go down. And then having the opportunity to audition for the role, like I didn't really have any expectations, because I'd never auditioned for anything before. So, I kind of just went in and thought, ‘Yep, let's give this a good crack and this will be fun. Like, let's see what auditioning’s all about ’ So, I was very grateful to have been so fortunate to get something that quickly because I know that it can take a lot of people many, many years to kind of break into that sort of role. And then, it was just so grateful that that job actually allowed me to create such a diverse skill set. It wasn't just presenting. It was the pre-production. It was the research and the scripting and, on the ground, producing as well and the post-production side of things. And I don't think, I never ever pictured myself to be in TV. So, being able to do the whole the suite of things. Without that, then I wouldn't have created Juiced.

A lot of people are surprised to know that you have all those skills, that you can work as a producer and do what are the behind the scenes work, but also perhaps what's the less glamorous side?

Yeah. But it's so important! To know what it takes behind the scenes before and after a show makes you, I think, a better presenter because you know how to kind of navigate things to make it a bit more of a seamless process or to do the research and really understand the person that you're interviewing or the topic that you're speaking about. Just makes it a more enjoyable process as well and it's an awesome opportunity just to be able to learn so many things along the way.

Were you surprised at your natural ability in front of a camera? An X-factor in that setting as a presenter is very unique and it's hard to bottle, it's hard to learn, and it's hard to practice. Were you surprised at how natural your ability was?

I probably have never thought of it that way. I've never thought of it being a natural ability, I was surprised by how little nerves I had when it came to stepping in front of the camera. Because I just love people. And I love talking to people. And that's all I focused on. I didn't focus on the fact that a record button was being pressed or who was going to see or where it was going to go. I was more focused on just making sure that the person that we were interviewing had the chance to get their story across or whatever was the purpose of what we were filming or to just make some entertaining content or do a double dare like we used to do on Toasted TV or ride a roller coaster. But I was super surprised the fact that I got the job, like I thought it was a joke to begin with. And then after this first six months of the contract was up, I was like, ‘Oh, well, this has been a fun six months, like, we're probably going to get the axe.’ And then it continued. And yeah, so I think I just with every day that I got to turn up to work was just really grateful for that opportunity.

And you did that for a decade?

Yeah, that's a long time. And I started when I was 19. So, I had no other work experience except for working in a camera shop and a vet clinic, washing dogs and a pizza shop. So, really unique environment to first step into and having such so many diverse interactions with people across the board and traveling. Traveling around Australia, traveling internationally as well. Yeah, and I look back on it. And I think about the amount of times that we would just laugh every day with like tears in our eyes and I think that's pretty lucky.

The journey that you took in television led you to what you do now, and long before Juiced TV was even created, there was a young girl who was the catalyst for this life-changing experience that you decided to take this new road. Tell me what impact Keely had on you?

Yeah, she was one in a million. So, before I started at 10, I was volunteering with the Royal Children's Hospital at Herston and I had to give up that volunteering role because when I got the job at 10, it was full time hours. I couldn't really commit to that. So, I started to organise parties and special events that I knew I could kind of accommodate and make a little special who her about. So, I met Keely on one of those occasions when I was at the hospital. And I was introduced to her as, ‘This is Keely and she's got two wishes. She wants to be on Totally Wild and she wants to go to Africa.’ And she was 12 years old and she had leukaemia and I just got back from volunteering in Africa and I was on Totally Wild and I couldn't really fathom like the injustice that this little girl wanted to do that. And at that stage, the outcome of her illness wasn't clear to me. And not long after that Keely became palliative, but we were able to film a really special Totally Wild segment with her up at Cairns at the Wildlife Dome and she was being like a reptile kind of keeper. She'd done all of her research and she did a far better job than I think I ever did on any Totally Wild show. But we were able to just capture these incredibly positive moments of her doing exactly what she wanted to be. It had nothing to do with her illness or what she was going through or what she looked like or what she wasn't able to do. And once she passed, her family invited me to speak at her funeral and that's where I saw the positive impact of something so tangible and to make that experience happen and for Keely to have that experience first and foremost, but in those circumstances where a child is going to pass away, for the family to be able to keep that. And that's where I just thought, this happens all the time and on such a varying scale and children's lives are impacted through no fault of their own through illness or injury and it just turns the family's lives upside down. So, I wanted to figure out what it would be to be able to capture and share those positive memories. And that's kind of where the brainstorming started.

It's a wonderful story and I'm sure Keely's family are so grateful that they came into contact with you. You've told me that you do still keep in touch.

Yeah, we're still in touch. They're up in Cairns. But that's the beauty of social media, I guess. And the little regular messages that come through. And that's something that's really positive because we want the impact of Juiced and I hope that my impact on people's lives isn't just a one-off occurrence and I love the fact that anyone that gets involved in Juiced actually becomes a part of our family.

It was a slow start, but that is what led to you deciding to quit your job and launch into this new project. Did everyone think you were crazy at that time?

Everyone did! But no one discouraged me. I think a lot of people were like, ‘Wow, big call.’ But maybe they just knew my determination to make it happen. Or there was such alignment between kind of who I've always been and the difference that I'd always kind of wanted to make that it just also made so much sense. And I think regardless, even if anyone did discourage me, I can't remember it now, I would have just blocked that out. And yeah, as I said earlier, it was just being so driven by what the outcome was going to be and what the impact was, like, I knew in my mind what I wanted that first day of filming to look like and feel like and do. And when we released that first episode, I could feel what that was going to do. And that's all I kind of focused on and just navigated my way through the finding of the funding and legals and accounting and getting everything set up in a relatively short amount of time with no business experience whatsoever. So yeah, I think it's a real blessing to kind of have such a visualisation.

And to be able to see the big picture, because it can be really hard to see that when you're starting something new. You're focusing on the tiny detail. But you need to really be looking at the end goal.

Yeah, definitely. And I think that speaks for so many things in life. Like I think if you know where you want to get to, you're going to take a different path. And even now, the fact that Juiced is established. Like, I've got this incredible team that helps us achieve everything every single day. And like, when I wasn’t in in the office on maternity leave, there might have been different decisions made but everyone is so focused on that big picture, which is the positive impact and the revolutionising the way that kids and their families experience hospital. It doesn't matter really about those little steps so long as everyone's got the heart and purpose behind, then that's easy.

It's great when you've got a really strong vision like that, too. Because it's really easy for everyone to know where you're headed. How do you even go about launching this sort of social enterprise? As you said, you had no business experience. What's more, when it began, you had no money. All you had was this dream of what you wanted to create. And how does what you started compared to what you've got today?

Yeah, I think in the beginning, it really was step by step. Like, you know, those really long rolls of butcher paper that you can get, I literally had those stuck up in our rental house. My poor housemates, like our lounge room was literally from top to bottom with a running list of, ‘Oh my gosh, I need to think of release forms for people and license agreements and all that sort of stuff and employee contracts.’ So, it was really just kind of writing down what I knew and then finding people around me who wanted to support me or who had the knowledge to be able to fill-in the gaps for me, connect me with the right people and let me know what I needed to focus on first. That was really important. And I think that that is something that now I reflect on as being incredible. But I think as women, we’re always like, ‘Well, we can't do something. We can't apply for a job until we're absolutely perfect. And we can tick every single box.’ And I had to tick all those boxes with other people to be able to get this off the ground. So, I think that's been a really great learning to know that..

.. you don't have to have all the answers before you start something..

And then just the other thing that I think was so unique was that it didn't exist. There wasn't a TV show that was going to connect and engage with kids the way we did in hospital and taking them on experiences outside of hospital and bringing that outside world in. So, I think that was one thing that made it so unique and, in a way, an easy sell to get guests to come to the hospital, to help do the crowdfunding campaign. People knew what the impact was going to be.

When we talk about the finance side of it, I'm guessing it's a lot of money that you need to go and rally to launch something like this. It doesn't sound like it was hard to sell your vision. But at the end of the day, when you need someone to sign on the dotted line of their cheque, is it hard to get money?

Yeah, it is. You really need to be able to prove that what you are doing is going to have a valuable impact, not just on the lives of the patients, but also for the organisations that support you. And I think for me, personally, I wouldn't have been able to take anyone's money, you know, like in inverted commas without knowing that no dollar was going to be misspent. It is a lot of money, but I did start off with like a bare-bones budget, which was probably a little too bare-bone. So, that was that was a good learning in accounting. But yeah, again, I think we just put the ask out there. People want to help. So, when we did our crowdfunding campaign, I was having sleepless nights because I'd set the target at $15,000. And then we ended up raising $32,000 , I think it was. And that I just had tears in my eyes thinking about that people all over Australia believed in my vision, to bring something to life that would improve the lives of so many kids.

How wonderful and not surprising that people were wanting to reach into their pockets to help you out!

Juiced TV isn't just famous within the hospital though. It's got such a big reputation that when celebrities are in town, as you mentioned, they make sure to drop in for a visit. And there is a brilliant photo on your Instagram of Johnny Depp kissing you on the cheek during his visit. And while he was, that was while he was here filming Pirates of the Caribbean on the Gold Coast, which is you know, an interesting time because it's been in the in the headlines, which, you know, very interesting for him. But what was that day like in hospital?

It was all under wraps until literally, I think, an hour or half an hour before he was going to visit. I think the thing that is really important to let people know is Johnny, first of all, like reached out and initiated because visiting kids in hospitals is something that he does across the world on regular occasions. So, he was the one that expressed interest about coming to the hospital. But we didn't want any external media or anything that would detract from that actual experience happening and having an impact on the kids. So, that's why there's that kind of level of hush-hush before something like this happens. But it was so special. Like the second that the trouble landed on the hospital, you could just kind of feel the energy shift within the hospital, the anticipation of the kids and for the parents as well. Like, it was at a time where dinner’s getting served and kids usually starting to wind down, getting ready for bed and just for them to just have such a unique break in their day. And something so significant happening is that Johnny was so present. Like, you look through the photos and you can see the tears welling up in his eyes of some of the kids that he met and then he…

I admire someone so much who can spend so much time and energy.. I'm pretty sure he started filming at four o'clock that morning and was there until nine, ten o'clock and was up again at four o'clock the next morning and I think that's not something that should be dismissed.

I remember that time really well because I was working as a reporter on the Gold Coast. So, I spent a lot of my days hunting Johnny around the southeast and I spent a lot of time hanging out outside the mansion where he'd been staying. It was the time when Pistol and Boo, the dogs, had been illegally brought into the country. It's a real bizarre time of my career, but I do remember he was working really hard and they shot in multiple locations across the southeast. And as you say, they had to be up at 4:00 a.m. because they were trying to get, you know, stunning sunrise shots and things like that, that you can only capture off the east coast of Queensland. So, it is remarkable that he was willing to take that time out. And he came dressed as Captain Jack Sparrow. Does that add an element for the kids, rather than just a celebrity here, it was the pirate?

Yeah, it's bringing this incredible imaginary world. He had his little bits of gold bullion that he handed out to the kids and there's so much presence in it, the way he walked down the corridor, you know, kind of slinking, like Jack Sparrow does. It really, and for the parents as well, I think that was also really great for them. It made the whole experience even more surreal.

I'm sure the parents were probably even more impressed because they're the ones that would have watched the Johnny Depp film. And but even so, how important for parents.. because they're also going through a tough time watching their kids in many cases, maybe suffer or battle.

Yeah, they are. And the healthcare workers. There's the nurses that are on night shifts and the doctors that are there. And they're turning up every single day to do everything that they can for those kids. It's such, Queensland Children's Hospital is an incredible facility. And I think, it's just as important, like, we've got to keep boosting them up and putting a smile on their faces as well.

How fun. Also, another great story, Chris Hemsworth, he's a repeat visitor.

Yeah. Happy to have him anytime. (Laughs)

Tell me about some of his visits.

Well, his first visit when they were in town filming Thor Ragnarok, he came one afternoon after filming with Tom Hiddleston, in character, made his appearance on Juiced to surprise a beautiful little boy called Cohen and a couple of other kids. And then he did the rounds, both him and Tom, visiting the kids, taking the hammer around. That was awesome. But he kept asking, ‘Where haven't we been and what levels.’ And kind of trying to gauge how many kids had missed out on the experience. And then he ended up coming back the next night, in a taxi with his dad, to visit the rest of the kids that he didn't get to see on that night. And again, like no one would have known about that. He didn't do it for publicity. These special guests don't come on Juiced for the publicity. They see the impact. Their teams and their managers, see the impact of, well, it's you've got to kind of get your timing right, you know, like to be in hospital, to be able to see one of these people in person. And there's a lot of kids that are regular outpatients and for us to be able to capture and share that positive moment with other kids who might be admitted the next day to let them know that Johnny Depp was thinking about you. And Chris Hemsworth was thinking about you.

And the greatest thing, I talk about this all the time, the greatest thing you can give a person is your time. And these guys have a really gruelling filming schedule. So, for them to make time to come and see these children is so so special.  

Yeah, it's really powerful and just such a great example. And a way to reflect on how you spend time in your life and how sometimes you can make excuses to not do things or not see family members because of something that's popped up. And I think when you when you see it on that sort of scale, in that sort of environment, it's a real reality check.

No doubt the star power brings a real atmosphere and electricity into those wards. But even when you're filming with just the kids or, you know, an ordinary person's come in, do you stop and realise the success you've found?

It's usually after, sometimes, like they're pretty busy days. We try and pack a lot into our days when we're filming at the hospital. But for me personally, it's not until maybe we speak to a parent after the fact and we hear about the impact of what we just filmed. Or you see the outtakes and you realise how many times that child smiled or laughed because of mistakes that they were making on camera. But the fact that they're not thinking about the fact that they're about to go into surgery or what's being administered in the drip in their arm is all those little moments that keep you going and that have just as much weight if not more than a high-profile visit.

Are you able to define success?

Some days success is getting dressed and turning up to work..

.. and managing a little toddler and getting home at the end of the day and thinking, ‘We did it!’ And we can just do it again tomorrow. But I think really, like on the whole, what drives me and what success is is having a positive impact in any way shape or form, whether that's through our work with Juiced TV, whether it's just making someone smile or helping someone out at the grocery store. Having beautiful one-on-one time with my son. It's just about trying to make the world a little bit better. And for me, like on a real personal level..

..success is me knowing that I'm a little bit better today than I was yesterday.

That's beautiful and a really healthy outlook. I had a chat with a former colleague of yours from Channel 10. And I asked him to describe you in three words and it will come as no surprise to listeners that the first word is ‘humble.’ Because listening to you, you are incredibly humble. He also described you as ‘warm’ and ‘wholesome.’ I love the word ‘wholesome.’ I use it all the time.

(Laughs)

It’s a great word.

But it's not something a lot of other people use. And it's very apt because it really means to be health-giving. The word and you work in a hospital, and what you're trying to do is make the lives of little people better. That's the basis of everything you do, but I want to know, where does it really come from, that you want to help others? Because most people don't have the desires you do.

Yeah. I think everyone, what I've seen with Juiced is everyone does want to help someone out. Sometimes they just need the opportunity to say yes. And that's what I saw when we did our crowdfunding campaign and I invited people along to fundraisers that I did to raise money for cancer and all the things that I've done in the past And it's just about giving people that opportunity to say, ‘Yes, I'd love to help. But I've never known how to do this, but I can turn up and I can donate money and have a good time and know that I've made an impact.’ But for me, I really think it just came down to my upbringing. I was, my mum and dad were teachers. So, I was constantly seeing them in that environment, being so selfless the way that they would go above and beyond for their students in helping kids that were less fortunate as well. My grandparents were very heavily involved in the church in the community. So, I was I was constantly seeing around me, normal people, people that I loved and I admired every single day, looking for ways to serve and make people's lives better.

I feel like again though, you've managed to deflect about yourself and say other people are willing to help others There is something deep deep down within you, though that has a real sense of purpose around this in a way that you couldn't see yourself doing anything else.

Yeah, it's really hard. Like people often ask me, will I do Juiced forever? And I don't really know how to answer that. Because there might come a stage where I might not be the best person to drive Juiced or take it to the next level. But I think regardless, it will always be, easily I'm very empathetic, I feel what other people feel and..

I see an injustice and I would like to do something about it!

And it does keep me up at night if I'm thinking about something is going wrong with a friend or something in the community or something in the world or in the hospital. If I know that something can be done, no matter how small it is, I'm going to do what I can. And it's kind of like that same motto that I was thinking about when I started Juiced and I resigned from Channel 10. I wanted to know that when I was 80, 90, maybe 110 years old on the back deck in my rocking chair, knowing that at least I gave it a crack and I did everything that I could and maybe Juiced wouldn't have got off the ground, but it was enough to have tried.

You're also a wife and a mum. You made mention of a toddler before. He's 14 months old. How did having a child change your own experience in hospital?

I was not sure how that was going to go because it's obviously, it can be very confronting, very emotional, it is. Every day when you step into the hospital, but then having your own child, it definitely makes it harder because you can put yourself in the shoes of the other parents that are there and on some level, try and imagine what it could be like to be going through that. But on the positive side, that has meant that it's further driven my want to do more, and maybe focus on smaller things and the things that will make those little smiles pop-up and just little thoughtful acts of kindness that we could do. It doesn't always have to be like the big show outcome. But what more could use be to really be a supportive service that can really strengthen an incredible community who was so brave and so resilient? So yeah, I'm grateful that while I'm very, very sleep deprived.. (laughter) I've got a little bit of extra fuel in the tank to do more.

I've heard you say that often when you're filming, you'll hear a parent say to you, ‘Wow, I haven't seen him smile in a week.’ And because of the work you do, you managed to get a smile out of a child who maybe has a terminal illness, which is just, it's heart-breaking but beautiful at the same time.

That's what keeps us going, and you know, these kids and what they go through, they teach you something every moment that you're with them. We could be filming something with a patient who is extremely ill and say, if we've got a give-away, they'll ask for something for their sibling, or they might finish their treatment and the parent will turn around and go, ‘Okay, so how can we fundraise for you?’ And you're like, ‘You have just gone through a significant horrendous time with your family and you're looking to give back already.’ That is an amazing learning and that is who we look up to, to continue to move forward and do more.

That's really beautiful!

Covid has obviously been a really strange time for everyone. But how has that impacted how Juiced operates within the hospital?

Yeah, that was a big one, definitely. Working in the healthcare sector, we had some increased restrictions and precautions put in place to protect the kids in the healthcare workers and their families, which meant that a lot of the non-government organisations and support services that weren't clinical care or critical, just had to step down and come out of the hospital or really reduce their footprint. Which is fantastic because it's done a great job of protecting our kids. But it's also been really hard for us to, when kids are admitted to hospital it's already a scary and alienating time. So, how could we continue to show up and make these families feel like we're still here for them even though they couldn't see us? So, like so many other businesses, we turned to look at online and what we could do to do something virtual and we were just really lucky that somehow… Sometimes I look back and I think, ‘How did we figure out how to get here?’ But yeah, we were able to create our virtual visits in a way to make the kids feel like they were still getting these bedside visits from incredible kids and the kids are limited in terms of their movement around the hospital as well. So, patients aren't interacting with other patients. So, we wanted them to be able to see each other as well and share that story and let them know that they're not alone.

And one of the small silver linings for Juiced TV has been that because we're all at home and we are going digital, at the same time, you've been able to connect the kids with some really awesome Aussie stars, Margot Robbie, Chris Hemsworth has been back for some virtual visits with the kids. So, I guess in a small way, it gives you an easier access to some people that otherwise you couldn't connect them with.

Definitely! And I think one of the greatest things is we've realised, ‘Okay, so we can connect with Margot Robbie over in Los Angeles. That means we can connect with any hospital around the world.’  So, what we're trying to look at now, how can we make this a strengthening of our hospital community and our little hospital heroes.

Well, Pip Forbes, you deserve every medal and honour this country has to offer. You're an absolute treasure. Thank you so much. for taking time out to chat, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me.

And don't forget, if you want to know more or to support or donate to Juiced TV,  you can visit their website, it’s juicedtv.com.au. Thanks, Pip!